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doma cases are slightly different. i think the doma challenge is much narrower challenge and i expect it to be much more optimistic about a kind of flat-out ruling that this is unconstitutional by the supreme court. the reason i think that, melissa, doma doesn't require any state to change its marriage laws. all it says is the federal government is going to return to what the federal government was always doing before. we were talking about federalism issues earlier in the show. in the history of marriage, the federal government has always deferred to state definitions of marriage. let me give you an example. some states allow first cousins to marry, others don't because of prohibitions, incest concerns and things like that. whatever the state definitions are, the federal government has always followed the state definition. if a state says they're married, the federal government says for the purposes of benefits they're married. in 1996, the defense of marriage act departed from that practice and said the federal gover
doma cases are slightly different. i think the doma challenge is much narrower challenge and i expect it to be much more optimistic about a kind of flat-out ruling that this is unconstitutional by the supreme court. the reason i think that, melissa, doma doesn't require any state to change its marriage laws. all it says is the federal government is going to return to what the federal government was always doing before. we were talking about federalism issues earlier in the show. in the history...
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Dec 8, 2012
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what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear. >> it would depend how the court rules in that case. >> if the court reaches the question of full faith and credit, what that is, utah must recognize the marriage laws of california, then, yes -- >> but you'd still be getting your social security checks, wouldn't you? >> it's not clear -- >> let's go back to a clear case. if prop 8 -- if the decision by the ninth , if the decision to strike that down, if that is upheld, where do we stand? what does that do? is equality then the law of the land? is marriage equality the law of land? >> it woul
what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear....
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that's a big step. >> you can decide as the obama administration has not to defend doma. there's still consequences to doma being on the book and reasons why it has to go away. >> absolutely. >> if you are a same-sex couple and married it in one of the states you're now legally married and one dies you face estate tax situations. >> yeah. >> that a heterosexual couple doesn't. every time you file federal taxes you are treated differently. it says these relationships are lesser. i think we've evolved to a point this country where we accept gay and lesbian people as equal and say their relationships in the federal law are lesser than we're saying they're lesser. >> how it fits with the immigration debate as well. >> certainly. it's presently worth noting that bill clinton should maybe take a page from the joe biden playbook because he after all is the person we have to thank -- >> the joe biden playbook. >> and taking a page from it. >> thank you to ari, joy and frank for joining me today. that is all for us here at "now." see you back tomorrow at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pa
that's a big step. >> you can decide as the obama administration has not to defend doma. there's still consequences to doma being on the book and reasons why it has to go away. >> absolutely. >> if you are a same-sex couple and married it in one of the states you're now legally married and one dies you face estate tax situations. >> yeah. >> that a heterosexual couple doesn't. every time you file federal taxes you are treated differently. it says these...
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so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of an equal protection question. the request he is will the court be ahead of where the public is or behind the public. this is a question that eventually sooner or later, probably sooner, the public will come around to recognize and already is showing by the polls that marriage equality should be considered a fundamental constitutional right. >> professor peterson, to julian's point, despite its rulings on the president's health care law, on immigration, this court maintains a conservative tilt. is this necessarily good news for supporters of same-sex ma
so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of...
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. >> i've heard from the justice department on doma and not with prop 8 and makes it all the more curious. >> the justice department has, again, had a leadership position on overturning the defensive marriage act but if you take the legal position they have advocated in the defensive marriage act cases and you apply it to a situation like proposition 8, all of those anti-gay laws go by the wayside and really a question of them taking the arguments they made in one case and making them again in this other case. >> i want to read from an associated press article on the fear and hope some have regarding gay marriage. gay marriage supporters see 41 reasons to fret over the supreme court's decision to take up the case of california's man on same sex issues and nine states allow partners to marry or will soon. 41 states do not. of those, 30 have written gay marriage bans into their state's constitution. >> i'm not that worried and the reason is because i think that the supreme court would have only taken these cases if they thought that they were ripe for a decision that moves the country forwa
. >> i've heard from the justice department on doma and not with prop 8 and makes it all the more curious. >> the justice department has, again, had a leadership position on overturning the defensive marriage act but if you take the legal position they have advocated in the defensive marriage act cases and you apply it to a situation like proposition 8, all of those anti-gay laws go by the wayside and really a question of them taking the arguments they made in one case and making...
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federal que prohÍbe al gobierno federal reconocer esas relaciones >>> la ley federal conocida como doma o acta de defensa del matrimonio reconozca ce las uni de las parejas heterosexuales >>> nuestra familia sufre bastante con esta discriminaciÓn, no podemos tener aseguranza legales como protecciÓn >>> la corte suprema tambiÉn accediÓ a pronunciarse sobre la proposiciÓn 8 que prohibio el matrimonio en parejas del mismo sexo en california, la decisiÓn tambiÉn se espera para mediados del aÑo y podrÍa tener implicaciones en estos el paÍs >>> cuando la corte suprema toma un caso es ya un, la Última voz la Última opiniÓn. jurÍdica y legal que tiene con este tema. >>> un tema que cada vez goza de mÁs aceptaciÓn social >>> segÚn la ultima en cuesta 54% de los estadounidenses hoy apoyan el matrimonio entre para rijs d parejas del mismo sexo y tren los latinos es aÚn mayor 6 de cada 10 estÁn de acuerdo que fue dan casarse >>> sin embargo el matrimonio gay aÚn tiene grandes opositores entre ellos poderosos grupos relaci religiosos para quienes estas uniones representan un prob
federal que prohÍbe al gobierno federal reconocer esas relaciones >>> la ley federal conocida como doma o acta de defensa del matrimonio reconozca ce las uni de las parejas heterosexuales >>> nuestra familia sufre bastante con esta discriminaciÓn, no podemos tener aseguranza legales como protecciÓn >>> la corte suprema tambiÉn accediÓ a pronunciarse sobre la proposiciÓn 8 que prohibio el matrimonio en parejas del mismo sexo en california, la decisiÓn tambiÉn...
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the first seeks to strike down the federal government's defense of marriage act, known as doma. the second involves a challenge to california's proposition 8, a voter-approved ballot initiative that outlawed same-sex marriage. a federal appeals court struck down the law earlier this year. the court's decision to weigh in on marriage equality came as same-sex couples began marrying in washington state yesterday. on election day voters there and in maryland and in maine made history when they became the first states to approve same-sex marriage at the ballot box. joining us now to discuss is steve, chair of the gay and lesbian victory fund. great to have you. >> nice to be here, alex. s. >> so a lot of tea leaf read and arm chair prognostication around this. i am by no means a supreme court expert, but when i saw that they were taking up both doma and prop 8, question as to whether they would take up inform i them at all, it seemed to me a signal that the court was ready to make a big decision, and i just cannot imagine, especially when you have conservatives like john roberts, wh
the first seeks to strike down the federal government's defense of marriage act, known as doma. the second involves a challenge to california's proposition 8, a voter-approved ballot initiative that outlawed same-sex marriage. a federal appeals court struck down the law earlier this year. the court's decision to weigh in on marriage equality came as same-sex couples began marrying in washington state yesterday. on election day voters there and in maryland and in maine made history when they...
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the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have same-sex marriage to require them to have same-sex marriage. i don't think that's going to happen. i think there's many weigh stations between 0 and 50. for example, the court could look at this and say there are a bunch of states, eight states that say we're going to give you the rights and benefits of marriage but we're going to withhold the word marriage. the court can look and say you're worried about is brand. all you're saying is if you let gays into marriage that's going to diminish the brand. we're going to strike that down. we're going to add those s
the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have...
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so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government is meddling with the state definitions of marriage. with respect to the prop 8 case, i think again kennedy, because of these two cases i mentioned, is likely to be sympathetic but may be incremental. he may say something along the lines of one state or eight states have to flip. i don't think he'll flip all 41. >> we always appreciate your valuable insight. we hope you'll stick around for the next few months and continue to provide that as we wade through what is undoubtedly going to be a fairly complex case, as well. good saturday to you, sir. thank you for your time. >>
so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government...
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the doma case doesn't invite the court to answer that question. it simple says if in those states that decide to grant same-sex marriage, which is up to the states, can the federal government still refuse to recognize those marriages? even if the supreme court strikes down the doma law, it won't say anything about whether a state has to allow same-sex marriage. on the prop 8 case it is possible to rule on that case very narrowly or broadly. let me explain. when the court of appeals said that prop 8 was unconstitutional, it said you can't do what california did. you can't give the right, which the california supreme court did, and then take it away, which prop 8 did. california's the only state that did that. if the supreme court barely upholds the court of appeals ruling, that would be good for california only. if the supreme court dives fully into in and gets into the basic constitutional question about whether states can block same-sex marriage, then, yes, they would get to it. they won't -- the mere fact they took up the case, we don't know whe
the doma case doesn't invite the court to answer that question. it simple says if in those states that decide to grant same-sex marriage, which is up to the states, can the federal government still refuse to recognize those marriages? even if the supreme court strikes down the doma law, it won't say anything about whether a state has to allow same-sex marriage. on the prop 8 case it is possible to rule on that case very narrowly or broadly. let me explain. when the court of appeals said that...
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let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're going to pre-empt you before you try. i think social cons are in a much better position when they say, look, let's make it so the government can't compel us to do things privately we don't want to do. i think you'll see much more emphasis placed on that. the question will be more than what will the supreme court try to do because they don't want to be out in front of public opinion too much. it's going to be fascinating. >> and they've rarely been accused of doing that either. david, let's move on to prop 8 in california. i
let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're...
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the 21 million americans hoping for health care and "the new york times" frank bruney weighs in on doma and cage for marriage equality when "now" starts in just three minutes. n't my daughs black bean soup spectacular? [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [ male announcer ] antacids don't relieve gas. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x. the gas xperts. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost.. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. ♪ but the fire is so delightful ♪ nothing melts away the cold like a hot, delicious bowl of chicken noodle soup from campbell's. ♪ let it snow, let it snow when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a dee
the 21 million americans hoping for health care and "the new york times" frank bruney weighs in on doma and cage for marriage equality when "now" starts in just three minutes. n't my daughs black bean soup spectacular? [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. those antacids aren't working. oh no, not that, not here! [ male announcer ] antacids don't relieve gas. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. gas-x. the gas xperts. gas-x is designed to relieve gas. when you lost the thing you can't...
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recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the most powerful justice is likely to determine the outcome. this is like the guessing game as to what is kennedy going to do. because he had obviously the things everybody talks about two really favorable gay rights rulings then he has other legal views that might conflict with this. do we have his cell phone number? could i give him a call? >> sure. >> stephanie: what you thinking about? what you doing? why are you so distant? you know what i started hoping over the weekend that all of the justices have a gay something. relative friends somebody they really
recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the...
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the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that whole scenario. also remember, a lot of businesses who whether it be say wedding photographers, wedding deejays, bank gbank get hauls wo may not be catering to same-sex marriages, they have been attacked very often by lawsuits because they may not necessarily be catering to same-sex marriages. saw this over in new mexico with elaine photography when a photographer said i don't care to photograph same-sex marriage ended up being sued. this lawsuit is still going on right now. >> jimmy williams, welcome back. just explain to me. i'm sure there's a l
the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that...
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in fact, ten cases related to the federal defense of marriage act, or doma and proposition 8 are pending against supreme court justices right now. at least one of them is going to make it to their docket. we could find out which one today about early next week or so. i'm joined by our legal analyst jeffrey tubin. remind us what are the court's oping whz it comes to marriage equality, and the differences here between doma and prop 8. >> well, defense of marriage act -- defense of marriage act was signed by president clinton in 1996, and it's a law that says the federal government, all as pecks of the federal government, including the internal revenue service will not recognize same-sex marriages even many states where same-sex marriage is legal and two appeals courts have held that that is unconstitutional, that it is unlawful discrimination. the obama administration agrees that this law is unconstitutional. it's now being defended by a lawyer hired by the house of representatives, and the case about is the defense of marriage act constitutional, that is one. there are several different c
in fact, ten cases related to the federal defense of marriage act, or doma and proposition 8 are pending against supreme court justices right now. at least one of them is going to make it to their docket. we could find out which one today about early next week or so. i'm joined by our legal analyst jeffrey tubin. remind us what are the court's oping whz it comes to marriage equality, and the differences here between doma and prop 8. >> well, defense of marriage act -- defense of marriage...
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there is a possibility justices will hear cases that challenge the federal defense of merge act or doma as it's known or california's proposition 8 which defines marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. >>> authorities have ordered folks in parts of louisiana to get out of town as they work to secure more than 6 million pounds of gun powder. gun powder. improperly stored m-6 powder was found at camp minden on property leased by expo system. workers are busy moving the powder into authorized facilities on the site. they have safely stored more than 1 million pounds. that is enough to fill 27 18-wheelers. >> wow. nine bodies have been recovered from three crushed, burned out cars in a highway tunnel 50 miles west of tokyo. officials still don't know what caused a 200 foot section of eight inch thick concrete to cave in over the weekend. take a look at these incredible pictures. and they're not saying whether there might be more victims in the rubble. >>> malala yousafzai, that pakistani girl who was shot in the head by the taliban is saying thank you to all of her new friends all o
there is a possibility justices will hear cases that challenge the federal defense of merge act or doma as it's known or california's proposition 8 which defines marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. >>> authorities have ordered folks in parts of louisiana to get out of town as they work to secure more than 6 million pounds of gun powder. gun powder. improperly stored m-6 powder was found at camp minden on property leased by expo system. workers are busy moving the powder...